The Star Spangled Banner doesn't even have the word America in it!

"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone) 01/13/2015 at 13:18 • Filed to: None

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It must be destroyed! Why?

Because it's the American flag and the American anthem. They should've put the word America to sound more American. In America!

That's pretty much what I hear when some asshole says the Ford GT is not American enough because it doesn't have a "big ole' V8 in it".

PanchoVilleneuve ST > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/13/2015 at 13:20

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It should be destroyed because it's a shit fucking song and we, as a nation, could do better.

Like have the Rza write us something.

For Sweden > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/13/2015 at 13:21

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six cylinders? LOL

Leadbull > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/13/2015 at 13:24

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Re. the Star Spangle Banner:

America is implied in every single verse.

ttyymmnn > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/13/2015 at 13:30

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Because it's a song about a flag, not a country. It's also a crappy song from a purely musical and poetic standpoint. I think our national anthem should be changed to America the Beautiful .

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > For Sweden 01/13/2015 at 13:37

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Stamina and skill, those are better than size, bro'...

For Sweden > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/13/2015 at 13:38

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I'm sure that's the lie she told you

For Sweden > ttyymmnn 01/13/2015 at 13:39

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Go to Palmdale and tell me "America the Beautiful" still applies.

ttyymmnn > For Sweden 01/13/2015 at 13:43

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Perhaps a little poetic license is allowed in both songs.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > For Sweden 01/13/2015 at 13:48

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I'm sure that next time you need to visit your dentist, you will ask him to use a jackhammer in your mouth.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > ttyymmnn 01/13/2015 at 14:11

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What? No Hail, Columbia ?

For shame...for shame...

Rock Bottom > For Sweden 01/13/2015 at 14:35

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I agree that Palmdale is a pretty terrible version of 'Murica. Luckily, it's completely cancelled out by places like Wyoming, Colorado, and The Sierras, right?!

ttyymmnn > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 01/13/2015 at 14:43

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Meh. Another bad piece of music with doggerel for lyrics. The Star Spangled Banner was based on a British drinking song, and this one sounds like it was copped from a French march.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > ttyymmnn 01/13/2015 at 15:25

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So would you rather it sound like an Italian march? Or maybe get Haydn to write one?

Or just steal Het Wilhelmus while you are at it :)

ttyymmnn > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 01/13/2015 at 15:43

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No, not an Italian march. The hardest part of being a Ferrari fan is having to sit through that endless, rather silly Italian anthem, though we haven't heard it all that much lately on the podium. It's perfectly understandable that Hail, Columbia would sound French. It was written in 1789, and with the recent unpleasantness with Great Britain having recently ended, due in large part to France's assistance (for her own strategic reasons, not necessarily true friendship with America), French musical influence is to be expected. Haydn would not work either. He wrote the Deutschlandlied, though he didn't know he was doing so at the time. Though Haydn was an Austrian, it is very much in an Austro-German style. Ideally, I think a national anthem should be written by natives of the country in question, with lyrics and music that represent the particular musical and poetic style of that country. For that reason, the anthems of, say, France, Italy and Germany are entirely appropriate. And that's why I think America the Beautiful is a better representation of America than either The Star Spangled Banner or Hail, Columbia . Plus, it's a hell of a lot easier to sing.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > ttyymmnn 01/13/2015 at 16:16

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Not the Team America theme song??? Really??

ttyymmnn > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 01/13/2015 at 16:18

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Now, there's a thought.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > ttyymmnn 01/13/2015 at 16:24

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Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser, it was called.

I am not a fan of Samuel A. Ward's tune. I find it personally grating, both as a musician (piano, organ and handbells), and as a soloist (I also do baritone solos).

I don't like it with "O Mother Dear, Jerusalem", and I don't like it coupled with Bates' poem.

It seems to kick around a ton of genuflecting about cursory appearances, without much substance. Not that Francis Scott Key was exactly rolling around in the stuff, either.

ttyymmnn > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 01/13/2015 at 16:37

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As Haydn wrote it, yes. He had no idea it would become what it is today.

I'm not saying Bates' poem is brilliant. So much of the poetry of that era is pretty tortured.

O beautiful for pilgrim feet / Whose stern impassioned stress / A thoroughfare for freedom beat / Across the wilderness

Ugh. Still, I think the sentiment of the first verse is good, at least in its later versions. (What the hell is an "enameled plain"?) And I still like the tune (I'm a professional trumpet player, btw). But I think we still need something better, and we can't use America , because the British already claimed the tune (from Clementi, if Wikipedia is to be trusted; I'll have to look into that).

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > ttyymmnn 01/13/2015 at 17:43

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I am a church musician, so while I don't play professionally, I do get good exposure to older music.

My desk hymnal shows the hymn tune America (My hymnal has it listed as National Hymn, not to be confused with the tune of the same name by Warren) as first appearing in Thesaurus Musicus published 1744 at London. No composer is given.

I tend to wish that the US had a far more lyrical anthem. La Marseillaise isn't a good example, and it is hard to sing unless you are really, really confident (e.g. Edith Piaf). However, I find certain couplets to work really well:

Amour sacré de la Patrie / Conduis, soutiens nos bras vengeurs / Liberté, Liberté chérie / Combats avec tes défenseurs

Haydn is great to listen to, can be reasonable to play (with the right arrangement), but good God, the high tonic (Normally Austrian Hymn is done in E major) can be a stretch for some vocalists.

However, I love the second stanza of Das Deutschlandlied.

Novaro's setting of the Inno di Mameli does go on way too long (Mainly on the insistence of repeating the first stanza before every refrain, so one better be good at "Fratelli d'Italia / l'Italia s'è desta")

Again, the lyrics are very astute at calling on Italy's history:

Raccolgaci un'unica / bandiera, una speme: / di fonderci insieme /già l'ora suonò.

My personal top twp right now are the Brabançonne and het Wilhelmus.

For the Belgians, it's a good mix of music that's not particularly grating (TBH, not particularly good either) and slightly deeper sentiment than in some anthems.

For the Dutch, well, I think somewhere along my grandmother's line, my blood was mixed with water from the Amstel :)

ttyymmnn > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 01/13/2015 at 17:56

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Just wondering, what hymnal are you using? I grew up singing in the boys choir at an Episcopal church (back in the days of the 1940 hymnal, still my favorite for sentimental reasons), and play regularly at an Episcopal church here in Austin. I actually enjoy playing service music. There's definitely an art to doing it well.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > ttyymmnn 01/13/2015 at 21:50

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The one I looked at earlier was Evangelical Lutheran Worship (Augsburg Fortress), however I am more partial to the older Lutheran Book of Worship and the 1941 The Lutheran Hymnal (If only because I learned the settings for Matins and Vespers on the church organ).

I could not stand not having a sung liturgy. Few things are as beautiful as a sung call and response mass.

On occasion, I am known to cantor. Normally the choir is in that role, but sometimes I chant the psalm. One day I'll compose some bell settings for psalms.

ttyymmnn > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 01/13/2015 at 22:57

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My wife was raised ELCA. You sound rather old school, in a very good way. Maybe we should work together some time!